Roman Catholics United

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: lol...yeah I'm finishing college first...and looking at the ones I would like to go, they are so expensive, I feel so bad to have to go to an expesive design school...

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: i'm not going to college...so, i have nothing to look forward to but meeting a decent guy...i have been looking for 6 years...someday i will meet one that *likes* me...maybe

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: I have one that likes me...theres just the whole 11 dimensions problem to figure out....

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: lucky you...i'm just going to wait..and wait...and wait...i have basically given up hope...but hey, maybe 20 years from now, i will meet a creep that will date me for a little while...

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: oh dont be silly! lol but I'm faced with the prospect that to have kids I'm going to have to marry a guy I dont like...now thats awkward...

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: well, woppty shit...i have yet to meet a guy i like, or one that likes me...so i guess i'm never getting married

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: you'd be surprised, I've seen people say that then fall head over heels for someone and get married...

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: i haven't just seen poeple *think* they fell "head over heals" for someone then get divorced 3 years later...love is dead in this world...

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: not quite, my parents are absolutly perfect, they are like water, they just flwo into eachother like you cant see were one starts and another begins, they never fight, but they arent all over eachother either, its like they found something deeper to love then just physical, or even mental...its insane

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: my parents have been married for 28 years...so what? that was then...NOW love is dead in the world and there is no hope in FINDING it now...

2005-03-07 [Bad Stone]: I think there is...its just hard to find, it wasnt easy for them to find either I'm sure

2005-03-07 [Lioness123]: its sad how people can fall out of love...its lack of communication and not sacraficing for the other that ruins marriages mainly (or so I've heard)

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: yeah...well, i can't even *find* love to then fall *out* of it...so i have given up...RD is alone now and forever

2005-03-07 [Lioness123]: what happened to your boyfriend?

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: long story...but he's dead

2005-03-07 [Lioness123]: I'm sorry :(

2005-03-07 [RabidSphinx]: i was stupid, and i know that...i realize now there was no love on his part there....it was all me...and in which case, i have *always* been alone...and i am very very tired of it...

2005-03-07 [Lioness123]: I pretty much gave up on guys (and he with girls) when me and my boyfriend met...trust me, you'll fall in love when you least expect it :)

2005-03-09 [Mr. Werewolf]: Everyone, I found out math is evil! Math makes me get frustrated, hate my teacher, and get mad at people who bug me, all of which are sins. Anything that causes you to sin is evil. Therefore, math is evil! Therefore, I don't see why I should have to take it. Hmph!

2005-03-09 [Tesa]: LOL! That was great [Mr. Werewolf]. I agree. Math is EVIL and causes sin....LOL!

2005-03-09 [Mr. Werewolf]: We're on matrices right now. I grasp the concept, but I get it wrong anyway! Even after checking it over, I did everything right!

2005-03-09 [Leelo]: howdy!!

2005-03-09 [RabidSphinx]: i think math is good...it is NOT a sin...unless living to better yourself and learning is a sin...if so, we are all damned

2005-03-09 [Mr. Werewolf]: I didn't say that math was a sin, I said it causes sin so it's evil. And it's really not bettering me by making me frustrated, and I'll never use it since I'm not going into that field. It's tediously trivial and utterly useless what we're going over.

2005-03-09 [Mr. Werewolf]: Although it is my fault, I decided to take the hard path by choosing pre-algebra in seventh grade and moving ahead from there. I just want to do well in that class and maintain my GPA but a couple weeks ago my class rank was 13 which sucks, and it's all because of math.

2005-03-09 [RabidSphinx]: *everything* can make you sin...is *everything* evil? and i find alot of things frustrating...we all get over it

2005-03-09 [Mr. Werewolf]: Not really, that's because evil has become such a central part of society that sometimes it's hard to distinguish the difference.

2005-03-09 [RabidSphinx]: name something and i can somehow have it lead to sin...

2005-03-09 [Dint]: "Nothing is evil, but thinking makes it so." Can't remember where I got that quote, but I think it's plausible. God created all things right? Then only the mind of the person can make an object (or whatever) evil. Like...let's say a screw driver. It can be used to build, but in the hands of a mad-man, it could be used for a crime; like murder. O-o (Is making no sense...*silences herself*)

2005-03-09 [RabidSphinx]: it makes sense, except god made everything *originally* but has no hand in it now...and so really, we can make things ourselves that are inharently evil

2005-03-09 [Tesa]: I so agree to that [Dint]. Many things are wonderful and beautiful, but people can make then really horrible. Like food. It's good for the body but we can go over board and become sick or over weight. You know? So yeah, Dint, that was awsome! *applauds*

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: Ooh we learned something really interesting in CCD on Wednesday. We were talking about symbols of Easter and I thought the origin of the tradition of painting Easter eggs was interesting. When Mary Magdalene was preaching before the Roman emperor, she was using an egg to describe something (can't remember what), and he said that the egg was more likely to turn blood red than for that to happen, and the legend says that it turned red right there! So that's where the tradition of painting eggs comes from.

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: anyone here have a stand on Stemcell research? it's my debate topic on agree to disagree and there is no one to debate with...*pouts* i figured yall would be against it, so care for a friend;y debate?

2005-03-12 [Lioness123]: as a healthcare provider and future nurse, I have to say that research that would improve people lives is worth nearly anything..but this is to protect life. Destroying one life to obtain that research is wrong....another way can be found

2005-03-12 [Tesa]: Well put Lioness and I totally agree. And that's where I stand. No room for debate on my part. Murder is murder, no matter how 'good' you make it sound. Oh, btw, Morning all!!^__^

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: well, take this scenario...inverto fertilization creates zygotes from several of a woman’s eggs by fertilizing them with her man's sperm...several are made, and a few are implanted at a time until one takes and a pregnancy results...now, if one of the first few take, the others are put in cold storage until the end of the year where they are then "disposed of"...why not use those zygotes and their stemcells for research? you can still argue it's murder to use them, but it's just as murderous to throw them away...so, if they are going to die no matter what, why not atleast get some good out of them?

2005-03-12 [Lioness123]: I don't think they should be making extra zygotes in the first place. I know how hard it is for that process to result in a baby, but a zygote is a fetus...a baby. It shouldn't be just thrown away. I've found that after a baby is born, there are stem cells in the umbilicle (sp) cord that could be harvested for stem cell research without harming the baby or the mother. Granted, its harder to obtain them and they don't live as long, but I believe its worth it if it means protecting the child and the terminally ill person relying on the research.

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: a zygote is NOT a “fetus” not even close…it is NOT even an Embryo yet…it is a cluster of cells, the most primitive of embryos…but it is NOT a fetus…get that part right at least…a fetus is a baby after it’s 2nd trimester, and is legally seen a “alive” under the law’s eyes…. and the umbilical stemcells are not proving as good in the research...they die, or can't be manipulated properly...the fact is, they *are* making extra zygotes, and that will *not* change...so, since they are being thrown out, why NOT use them? that was my question, and you dodged it

2005-03-12 [Lioness123]: ok, I think we have a difference in opinion as to when life starts...my belief is that life starts when the sperm and egg come together. From that point on, it is dividing and growing...therfore its alive. "fetus" and "zygote" are just names we give to the certain stages of developement. As for weither or not the "zygotes" should be used...I'm kinda divided in the issue. They shouldn't be destroyed for the cells, and they shouldn't be thrown out like trash..

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: i believe life begins at conception, hello? I run the pro-life wiki…but I was merely correcting your terminology since you were wrong, and REGARDLESS the zygotes ARE being made, and they will NOT stop doing invetro…and they will throw them out or use them for research because they can’t use them for any other purpose and they take up a lot of space after accumulating for a year…if you don’t want them “thrown away” or used in research, what the hell do you want to do with them? they will die if you leave them in storage for over a year anyways

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: I agree 100% with Lioness on this one. Although I've heard there are also adult stem cells, does that mean you can get them from adults too? I'm not very familiar with this field.

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: no [Mr. Werewolf], adult stemcells are no good because they may be "blank" as in are not anything yet, they are already programmed to *become* a certain kind of cell, so they can't be used in the research because there *are* no adult spinal nerve stemcells...you *have* to use embryonic stemcells to create new nerves...and what did lioness say to agree with? we all agree life begins at conception, but *she* said they shouldn't be thrown out or used for stemcell research, so, I ask again, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THEM?

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: I agree with her that they shouldn't be created in the first place. The process is morally wrong I think because since they're already created that they are alive and basically they will be destroyed anyway in the end. So it's murder either way, it's only sugar-coating it by saying that you're saving people's lives. It doesn't cover up the fact that another was destroyed.

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: BUT, they are made to creat lives...to give families children...there are usually just some left over in the end which are then put into cold storage and either die there, or are "killed" when they are disposed of....i'm against the *creation* of the cells *for* the research, but since we *already* HAVE the cells and they are going to waste, why *not* use them? you all keep dodging that question

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: There are already too many children in the world...if people cannot have children then they should adopt children. You're helping overpopulation and you're also giving a home to a poor child. I think that a person would be more miserable in an orphanage than without having their "own" children. I think the main reason we shouldn't use the cells is the ethics involved. Since they are humans, it would be unethical to take things out without their consent. They don't take organs out of dead people who aren't donors do they?

2005-03-12 [RabidSphinx]: okay, the countties that are so overpopulated are *not* the ones using invetro, but counties like the US and the UK where there isn't that problem...so your argument there is moot....

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: Not really...it's very common for couples to adopt children from foreign countries. The only problem is that it's expensive...I would have the money that is going toward the development of this cruel practice go toward subsidising these adoption services.

2005-03-12 [Mr. Werewolf]: If people in the wealthy, industrialized nations will not adopt the children in those countries then who will? Orphanages are already in short supply in countries like Russia, India, and Mexico to name a few. It isn't uncommon for families to have seven-ten children in such countries.

2005-03-13 [RabidSphinx]: and is that *my* problem? counties with overpopulation problems have children bans so that you are not allowed to have more than one or two....and "yes really" because what i said is true, we are not helping the "over population" because we are using invetro in countries that don't *have* a population problem...the fact that other countes have those problems is nout *our* problem at all...and other than a chinese kid, i wouldn't adopt any forign children...regardless this is the the topic...why NOT use the zygotes that we *already have* in the stemcell research?

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: Because, like I already said...it's unethical to use them because since they are humans it is morally wrong to use their stem cells without consent.

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: And it IS our problem, because it is our fault. Our companies exploit them which is the reason that they cannot support themselves. It's all about cheap labor. And now they have these problems and lack the resources to solve them. We are the only ones who can.

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: And that's what this would be too, exploitation of another kind. Basically depriving these humans of their rights.

2005-03-13 [RabidSphinx]: hahaha...you don't understand economy do you wr wolf? otherwise you wouldn't have said what you just did...you moron..."out sourcing" is "cheap labor" on our end ONLY....we out source because we can pay them 5 bucks a day, or our workers more than 5 buck an HOUR...you see, in countries like India, 5 bucks a day can support a family of 5, supply them with television, a car, and good schooling for their children...by using them for "cheap labor" we are HELPING THEM while saving ourselves money...so please, until you have written a 15 page research paper in economics on the topic, don't try to talk to me withyour uneducated views on the matter...you have *no* idea what on earth you are talking

2005-03-13 [RabidSphinx]: about on that point...as for the inverto...they have no rights because *we* made them...we own them...they wouldn't exist without us...you can't say "god made them" like you can with any other human....these zygotes are *our* creations, and i feel they *should* be used in the research, to help "god's creations"

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: I do know what I'm talking about. I have BEEN to these places, and I know what kinds of conditions people live under there. These methods are ways of keeping us in control. Did you know that the top three car companies in America have more money than the total value of Argentina? Right now there is an economic crisis there. People are starving and it produces enough food to provide for a country the size of the United States. It IS exploitation however you look at it.

2005-03-13 [RabidSphinx]: i have seen the countries too, (not personally mind yu, but seen them in program specials)...i know that *some* countries are having troubles, and that is not *our* problem...it's them and their bad management...we give them jobs and pay...pay enough to support them if they knew how to run a country...and is Argentina one of the countries we even out source in? i don't recall it as being one...but regardless, we of the united states are not the babysitter of the world...we can't help *everyone* without compromising ourselves...if you haven't noticed, our economy aint the best either....

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: I believe so, I remember meeting someone when I was there who worked for a copper mine run by a Canadian company. Our economy isn't as good as it once was, but if you look at other countries they are taking the real brunt...I laugh because everyone complains about gas prices while it's around $5 a LITER down in Argentina. And their currency has a 3:1 exchange rate against the US dollar.

2005-03-13 [RabidSphinx]: that's Canada, not the US...those are totally DIFFERENT countries my dear....and i don't care about Argentina...honeslt, i don't...anyways...i have to go to bed...church in the morning after all

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well I have family in Argentina so I do care. Anyways have a nice sleep.

2005-03-13 [Lioness123]: after reading what I missed, i just want to add that our scientists do not CREATE life. They create suitable conditions for life to exist. GOD creates the life that causes cells (or anything) to divide and grow. Its like a statement I'd heard a doctor on tv say... "We can tell you a million reasons why a heart stops, but we can never explain to you what makes it initially start to beat".

2005-03-13 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well said [Lioness123]!

2005-03-14 [goldice]: thats a good point

2005-03-24 [Tesa]: Welcome [THEHOBBITEDONE]!!

2005-03-24 [Lioness123]: *waves hi to hobbit*

2005-03-24 [Mr. Werewolf]: I know this debate died several days ago, but this is some new news on adult stem cells: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=2&u=/nm/20050324/hl_nm/health_australia_stemcell_dc

2005-03-24 [Tesa]: Thanks [Mr. Werewolf] I'll look at that one later!

2005-03-24 [Lioness123]: just finished reading it....that is soo great! That would solve everything and give the green light for scientists to come up with lots of cures! *dances in joy*

2005-03-24 [Tesa]: Yeah I read it too!! It's really good!! God will provide for his people. We just have to be paitent!! Wee hee!! *dances with [Lioness123]*

2005-04-01 [Tesa]: May God grant eternal rest to our Holy Father, John Paul II. He was such a Holy Man, and was loved by all nations and religions. He was truly the servant of servants and the people who he sheperds will miss him and love him for all times. May we all some day greet him when we enter the Eternal Kingdom. (Rest In Peace Holy Father, we will always love you.)

2005-04-01 [Tesa]: ETWN news reports that his brain and heart are still alive but he is very much near the last moments of his life. Gosh, I hope he is no pain at all. Poor Holy Father...

2005-04-02 [Lioness123]: question....if the pope were to become like Terry Sheivo, what would the vatican do? He's still alive and therefore still pope, but if he's a vegetable? when then?

2005-04-02 [goldice]: i have a question. how do you get a new pope? when he dies, do they have like an election or what? sorry this is just something i wondered

2005-04-02 [Bad Stone]: okay first lioness they dont know what to do if the pope becomes brain damaged, alive but not able to speak or make choices, he cannot stop become pope unless he dies or resigns (or steps down, whatever) so really there is NOTHING they can do and they seriosuly need to fix that. and 2 a new pope is decided by the high cardinals and possibly bishops...I think anyways

2005-04-02 [goldice]: ok thanks. i didn't want to seem heartless by asking but it was something was at the back of my mind

2005-04-02 [Bad Stone]: oh it's not heartless, not everyone livess forever, but he may not die just yet he's amazingly resilant (sp?). But remember he's been in pain since he was shot, I hope he can be without pain after this is all over.

2005-04-02 [Tesa]: Oh he will be with out pain! He's a wonderful man. And, I don't think they need to change that. God takes care of his people. His pope, our leader in this time, he will never leave. I can bet you every thing I have on that one. And to elect a new Pope, the Magestarium, (The College of Cardinals, age 80 and over) will vote for the new pope.

2005-04-02 [goldice]: thanks. as you know (well some) im not catholic so i didn't want to seem harsh. and eldheler its resiliant

2005-04-03 [Quo Vadis]: Pope Jonh Paul II has passed away. Please keep him in your prayers, Thank you. ( May he reat in pease)

2005-04-03 [Mr. Werewolf]: How sad...the world will be a different place without him. I think there should be a rule though, just in case. I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law.

2005-04-03 [Mr. Werewolf]: Aah but we shouldn't discuss it too thoroughly, it's not a good time for debating and arguing. And I have a headache hehe.

2005-04-03 [Lioness123]: it seems alot of people have been dying in the news recently. Do you guys know how they determine when the pope is actually dead? there's a special process that must be done before he can be declared by the church as DEAD.

2005-04-03 [Frosty French Fry]: one of those important people tap his head with a silver hammer and call out his given name three times..then they smash his ring with the hammer

2005-04-03 [RabidSphinx]: pope is dead.....I GOT DIBS ON HIS POPEMOBEAL!!!

2005-04-04 [goldice]: thats a bit heartless

2005-04-04 [Tesa]: I agree. Gosh RaineDrop. For once could you take it easy?

2005-04-04 [Lioness123]: damn.....would you say that about someone on Elfpack?

2005-04-04 [Tesa]: In Honor of the man who made Catholics look like what they should be. God Bless Him!

2005-04-05 [Lioness123]: thats a cool pic

2005-04-05 [Tesa]: Thankies!

2005-04-05 [Frosty French Fry]: Hey people..was i right about what they did after he died....

2005-04-05 [Lioness123]: I asked around, and yes. you were :)

2005-04-05 [Frosty French Fry]: ha..i knew i wasnt dumb

2005-04-11 [Quo Vadis]: Nice pic [Tesa]!!Really nice!! :D

2005-04-11 [Lioness123]: I had the craziest dream last night and it involved the pope....

2005-04-11 [Lioness123]: don't hate me for this, I can't control what I dream about... anyway, I dreamt that the pope's body was in my basement waiting to be buried. I came downstairs to get on the computer, and saw that his body was slightly moving, I figured it was from the nerves dying making his muscles contract...and then he sat up, opened his eyes, and look right at me! He kept spasming, messing up his nicely done clothing and ornaments and stuff, and i kept worrying that when the people come to get him to bury him, they're going to think I moved the body. Also, his helper guy had also died and was lying along side him, but he became almost like a zombie and got up.

2005-04-11 [Lioness123]: He followed me around, and I just kept trying to lay them down and get them to hold still so they don't mess up their clothes or anything. Finally, I got my parents who didn't find it weird at all that the pope and the other guy were like zombies. Then for some reason, I was in Poland when the pope was a teenager, and with me was one of my friends who has short black hair and wears punk makeup. They made fun of us while we were shopping in the market and I told them off but good, but they were just jerks to her... Then alot of other totally weird stuff happened ad I woke up. Does it sound like I've lost my marbles or what??

2005-04-19 [Lioness123]: lol, cool. i like the color

2005-04-19 [Tesa]: We have a new Pope!! Pope Benedict the 16th! (AKA Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger!) A German! *is proud to be German!* God Bless him as he makes this journey!!

2005-04-19 [Tesa]: Long Live Benedict XVI!!

2005-04-19 [Lioness123]: *celebrates*

2005-04-20 [Mr. Werewolf]: *celebrates with [Lioness123]*

2005-04-25 [Dint]: ....

2005-04-25 [Tesa]: ......don't even talk about me, please. I don't want to be a publicity thing for you....'specially in RCU...just stop alright?

2005-04-25 [Frosty French Fry]: publicity thing?? whats that supposed to mean

2005-04-25 [Dint]: I think she means she wants this argument to be a private one, instead of being open in this public wiki.

2005-04-25 [Frosty French Fry]: well..i respect that.....sorry........you have all been good friends from the little bit i have talked to you....bye

2005-04-25 [Lioness123]: did i miss something?

2005-04-26 [Bad Stone]: same here...

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: I picked an argument with a Traditionalist Catholic.......

2005-04-26 [Bad Stone]: so doesn't mean she should hate you...I mean, I'm friends with people with a crapload of different religions, or have completely different opinions then me, sometimes it bothers me but so what we are still friends.

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: Well...im Roman Catholic just like she is but we got in a big ole fight and she called me a non catholic and a couple other things (i forgot what they were)...so ya...she pretty much does

2005-04-26 [Bad Stone]: bother you?

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: yes it does bother me........i mean we were friends and then i said one thing about one of the rules of the Catholic church and we got in a fight about it....i liked her....and now....its f***ed

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: liked her as a friend

2005-04-26 [Bad Stone]: well go ahead and message me whenever...we probs shouldnt continue this here

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: eh its no big deal...i f***ed it up so oh well

2005-04-26 [Tesa]: Oh my gosh! Matt! I *never* ever said I hated you! I hate nothing and no one! How many times do I have to say that? I don't know why your all upset and the likes....I told you not to get into and you did any ways. So, gosh, stop swearing and pull it together! I am still here if you ever want to talk, but, if your going to look down on me like this, then please don't. Just because I am a strong believer of the TRUE Church Teachigns, doesn't make me blind or stupid.

2005-04-26 [Lioness123]: c'mon peeps, let bygons be bygons. I don't really know what this is all about, but if there's a problem, we can solve it without getting upset.

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: I am a believer if the TRUE church teachings also!!.........grr

2005-04-26 [Dint]: Tess told me a little bit about the disagreement. She said that you thought there should be women priests or something along those lines. I also agree with [Tesa], that there should not be women priests, because Christ did not institute women in that position in the first place. His mother would have been a wonderful priest if you think about it, but Jesus didn't appoint women that way, thus, if there were to be women given the chances of being a priest, you're going against what the Church teaches.

2005-04-26 [Dint]: And there's my two cents. =)

2005-04-26 [Tesa]: Thanks [Dint]...;__;

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: Fine whatever...your both Traditionalist Catholics......and I ONLY DISAGREE WITH ONE DAMN TEACHING!!!!!!

2005-04-26 [Dint]: Our faith doesn't depend on the latest trends. We believe in what we do because it is the Truth. The teachings of the Church are consistant, and will remain so. 

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: Who said anything about the "latest trends"?!?!??.....

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: and no the teachings arent consistent

2005-04-26 [Dint]: No need to get angry. I'm just voicing my understanding of the matter. What I mean by "latest trends" is, for example, divorce, artificial contraception etc. Having women priests is to me, another one of these. Now let me ask you, what teachings of the Church haven't been consistent? I'd like to know what you mean by that.

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: If the teachings were consistent we would still be in the days of the inquisition......The Catholic Church is dynamic and will continue to change as it has for the past 2,000 years

2005-04-26 [Dint]: Can you give me specific examples of how the teachings have changed? 

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: No i can not give you specific examples.....but that doesnt mean spit

2005-04-26 [Dint]: Well then, no harm done. We should carry on this conversation again when you find examples. ^__^

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: So tell me something.....In 2000 years the church hasnt changed its teaching one bit?

2005-04-26 [Dint]: No, they have not changed. They have developed. And by developed, I mean that the understanding of the doctrine becomes clearer.

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: GAHH!!!!!.....yes they have.....they have evolved/developed....which means they have changed!!!!!!

2005-04-26 [Dint]: The teachings themselves have not changed. The understanding of the doctrines is clearer.

2005-04-26 [Frosty French Fry]: FINE....WHATEVER.....IM DONE...

2005-04-26 [Dint]: I didn't mean to upset you, and I'm sorry if I did.

2005-04-26 [Tesa]: Good explinations Dint. Very true, the church has never and will never change. We received the church from Christ, and we can not change what he has given us. *nods* The understandings of the Doctrines ARE clearer, thus why people might think we changed. If we did change, we would no longer be Catholics.

2005-04-27 [Lioness123]: I'm not going to pick a side here, but I just know that times change. I believe that the new pope should allow the use of condoms, because when they first decided to forbid their use, it was because they wanted to spread the religion and increase the numbers of catholics worldwide. Now that thats not a problem anymore, I don't really see whats wrong with using them.

2005-04-27 [Lioness123]: and as for the woman priest thing, I asked a priest this same question and he said that a priest should be as close to Jesus as possible, and that includes gender.

2005-04-27 [Tesa]: I am taking my name off of this wiki. I am not going to be part of a ROMAN CATHOLIC wiki that puts their own spills into the church. The Church is ours, but we don't have rights to change it. And it's not OLD style, it's the church. Tradition. Times change YES, but the church has remained the same and will remain the same untill the end of time. I hope you can all come to see that what you think might not be what the Church IS or will be.

2005-04-27 [Frosty French Fry]: I did not talk to my priest but one of my friends that is in CCD at the high school level talked with him and the whole class about his views on if women should be priests and he said that he knows some women that would make great priests....

2005-04-28 [Mr. Werewolf]: Well, I'd like to say a couple things...first, I agree with [Tesa] and [Dint] on women priests ([Tesa] did an excellent job of shaping my opinion a while ago). Second, condoms should never be accepted because there are three things that are needed to make sex moral 1)procreation 2)it's an act of love and the partners are married and 3)both parties experience pleasure. So missing one or two of those three makes it an abuse of the practice. Thirdly, I invented this quote a while ago while talking about social changes affecting the Church's teachings. Think about it. "Put morals into society, not society into morals."

2005-04-28 [Lioness123]: I'm sorry that Teri left...she was a great addition to this wiki. I hope I didn't say anything to upset her.

2005-04-28 [Frosty French Fry]: Well i started the whole thing so its my fault

2005-04-28 [Lioness123]: its no one's fault, you guys were just sticking up for what you believe to be right, which is a very good thing.

2005-04-29 [Quo Vadis]: Women ARE not going to be priest and I don't think that they ever should be. I mean God wanted MEN to be priest should be

2005-04-29 [Frosty French Fry]: whatever...the argument is done...over...PERIOD..

2005-04-29 [Lioness123]: whatever people's beliefs, things are as they are and will not soon be changed, which to me is a good thing. Teri was right in the sense that you can't go on changing every little thing here and there over time as time changes because before long, it will be totally different.

2005-04-29 [Frosty French Fry]: Well i realize that....but the Catholic Church has evolved and changed some over the years

2005-04-29 [the_puetzj]: for instance the priest used to face away from the people when he celebrated mass and you couldn't recieve the eucharist in your hands

2005-04-29 [Lioness123]: *shrugs* ya got me there..

2005-05-03 [Bad Stone]: also you don't SELL forgiveness anymore...

2005-05-03 [Lioness123]: that was because of the corruption of the church leaders and is NOT NOT NOT part of the Catholic Church teachings. What they did was VERY wrong and may God forgive them.

2005-05-04 [Bad Stone]: but the church STILL did it, and it was part of the teachings then.

2005-05-04 [Lioness123]: it was never part of the teachings of the church. It was a sick money making scheme of a bunch of corrupt church leaders...kinda like the problems surfacing alot lately about the child molestations. As horrible as those things are, they were done by individual men acting out of greed. The church doesn't teach any of that, and actually condones it.

2005-05-04 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: point well made Lioness 123

2005-05-04 [Lioness123]: thanks

2005-05-05 [Bad Stone]: It was taught back then, obviously or it wouldn't have happened. There was no other teaching, or condoning until Luther came along. It is utterly UNLIKE the child molestation charges now, because now they are disgraced.

2005-05-05 [Lioness123]: it was NOT taught back then, I believe you may have been misinformed. Luther had the right idea that charging for forgiveness was wrong, but he should not have gone and started his own church. No man can improve upon Jesus's church because he is God.

2005-05-06 [Bad Stone]: Did you live back in medival times? No one would have bough them if they weren't told too, but I guess you can say it all turned out good in the end- nice churches. Luther had every right to go make another Church, Catholic Church was more then corrupt, I mean the Popes were running brothels! Catholic Church is no more Jesus's Church then any other Church. A Church is it's people- when the people run brothels it is NOT Christ's Church  .

2005-05-06 [Lioness123]: no I did not live in the midieval times, but I have done extensive research on this sort of thing. You are way off by saying that "Catholic Church is no more Jesus's Church then any other Church". The ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH was founded by Jesus Christ himself, and all other branches of christianity are branched off of this main religion. I suggest you go do your homework on the matter. As for the corruption, you're right to say that many of the leaders back then were corrupt, but those people were not acting in accord to the teachings of the faith! They were, as I said before, greedy men in search of a buck and tainted the reputation of the church. Believe me man, I AM catholic.

2005-05-06 [Lioness123]: I've been taught this stuff my whole life. How much have you studied the Roman Catholic faith??

2005-05-06 [Tesa]: Well said Lioness. Nothing like that was EVER put in Church Doctrine! The Church it self is Holy and grand and will never change, but sometimes the Leaders, WHO ARE, and every one forgets, are HUMAN. Humans SIN. And because they sin it takes good and very strong men to lead the church and it's followers.

2005-05-06 [Bad Stone]: I've had several years withthis subject, mostly with CATHOLIC teachers (public school sometimes, but he was catholic- very catholic) So are you saying that people just BOUGHT indulgences and were not told to buy them? Of course they were told to bought them, told that they had to buy them forgiveness, how is that not teaching? It was in no Bible or anything, but the people couldn't read so it didnt matter. So what if protestant churchs branched off? They are very different, and just as Holy.

2005-05-06 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: i believe that it was the ppls decision to sell indulgences, not the church as a whole.

2005-05-06 [Lioness123]: a priest can tell you that an X Box is better than regular Nintendo, but does that mean that thats what he's teaching? Just because he says it (and its his opinion) does that make it a teaching of the church? most certainly no. Church teachings were made long long long ago...when the religion was first developing.

2005-05-06 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: another point well made

2005-05-07 [Bad Stone]: So if the church as a whole didnt sell them why was the money from these indulgences used by the church as a whole to make HUGE cathedrals?

2005-05-07 [Lioness123]: *shrugs* maybe the others didn't know where the money came from. Maybe they were all in on it. I suspect that the good priests and cardinals might have just forgotten to ask where the money came from. I think I'll look more into this...

2005-05-07 [Tesa]: What DOES matter is that the church leaders fell, and are now back up! Why dwell on sins which have been either forgotten or forgiven, (to those who did not repent or what ever)?? Christ LOVES the people and forgets their sins after confession. There is NO need to make arguments about things that have ALREADY been settled. By the way, did any one happen to catch Fr. Francis Mary's homily yesterday on EWTN?? It was on Chastity! Oh it was WONDERUL!! Go Fr. FRANCIS!!!

2005-05-07 [the_puetzj]: welcome back teri

2005-05-07 [Lioness123]: yes, nice to see u again *hugz*

2005-05-07 [Frosty French Fry]: *grunts*

2005-05-08 [Bad Stone]: Didn't know where it came from? When you get truckloads of money and see people selling paper for forgiveness wouldnt you begin to wonder? And my point is that you HAVE changed, and that you are in no way perfect.

2005-05-08 [Lioness123]: when you say "you"...do you mean me or the entire church? and you have your own right to an opinion, but I believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true religion. If I didn't believe that, I'd be an awful catholic.

2005-05-08 [Bad Stone]: which you? lol...I used alot of 'you's hmmm...anyways, so you would be an awful Catholic if you didn't believe your religion is right and has always been right and will always be right?

2005-05-09 [Lioness123]: yep, but I suppose thats true of all religions. For one to be a devout person in their faith, one should believe that their religion is right and practice it daily.

2005-05-09 [Bad Stone]: not really, haha, you can believe there is some truth in many religions I mean you do find truth in the Protestant church right? and Jewdism, I mean it's the same God, as with Islam, they all branch of Jewdism, you many not agree with all of it but there is still the idea of ONE God, who made everything and everyone, some are closer to Catholism while others arent, you do beleive that right?

2005-05-09 [Lioness123]: remember that Catholicism pretty much IS jewdism, only with much more added to it. Remember, Jesus was a jew. But you're right that many of the religions worship the same God, but in very different ways...depending on the religion.

2005-05-09 [Bad Stone]: that was my point lioness, I'm not stupid, I know how all the religions branch out, and their beliefs and read many of their Holy texts.

2005-05-10 [Mr. Werewolf]: I agree with Lioness, "For one to be a devout person in their faith, one should believe that their religion is right and practice it daily." I could not say it better so I quoted it. While all other religions probably carry some truths we believe that our church is the right religion. I think we believe that a virtuous life can get someone to Heaven (I think, regardless of religion) but Catholicism contains the correct teachings that can be relied on...etc. Indulgences are touchy subjects, because they were sold in the ME but they are actually free (certain prayers are examples). But religious leaders should never sell forgiveness since it's not just for those who have money.

2005-05-13 [Tesa]: Great explination [Mr. Werewolf]! And it is believe by the Church, because many people don't know Christ, and God in his Divine Mercy see's their good lives and loves them very much. Catholicism is the best thing you can teach a person. My friend Jody, her family are ALL converts and she has told me many times it is the best thing her parents did for her. She's being Confirmed into the Church next Wend.!!! I am so happy for her! As I was for [Dint]!

2005-06-01 [Frosty French Fry]: is it just me or has no one talked in here for a LONG time

2005-06-01 [Quo Vadis]: It's not just you

2005-06-17 [Tesa]: I agree...*listens to the crickets chirping*

2005-06-18 [Lioness123]: isn't it peaceful? *makes a campfire and hands out marshmallows*

2005-06-18 [Quo Vadis]: *grabs marshmallow form [Lioness123]* Yes, it is

2005-06-18 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: *looks at pritty fire*

2005-06-18 [Quo Vadis]: Woo the colors!

2005-06-18 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: yep

2005-06-18 [Quo Vadis]: *blinks*

2005-06-18 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: *takes a marshmello from Lioness 123 and roasts it in the fire

2005-06-18 [Lioness123]: *makes a s'more*

2005-06-18 [Quo Vadis]: mmmmm!

2005-06-20 [Tesa]: *whips out the guitar and starts to play soft peaceful music...*....ahh, praise God! *stuffs face with marshmellows*

2005-06-20 [THEHOBBITEDONE]: yes, praise god

2005-06-20 [Quo Vadis]: MARSHMELLOWS!!! and yes!

2005-06-21 [Lioness123]: ah, chocolate... my only addiction..

2005-06-21 [Quo Vadis]: Huh?